I just started watching the show Lie to Me on Hulu and it's been pretty spiffy so far. I caught a promo advertisement for it on tv a while back and had always meant to check it out, but it slipped my mind until now. The basic premise of the show is that the main character studies facial and body response, using that information to determine whether a person is lying or telling the truth. In the second episode the problem to be unraveled involves a rape, and it got me thinking. The scenario in the show reminds me a lot of a similar circumstance that I debated about once and I thought I'd pitch it to all of you out there and see what you think.
I'm going to describe a series of events and I'd like to know whether you think what I'm describing qualifies as rape or not.
Two people work at an office and over time get to know each other pretty well. The male employee is the female employee's boss. One day, after the office christmas party or some other get together, they end up splitting a cab to go home. The man invites her into his apartment for a nightcap and she agrees, thinking that they'll just have some coffee and talk. Once inside the apartment, he propositions her. She thinks about how if she says no, he could go apeshit and fire her or otherwise try to ruin her career so she says yes and they knock boots.
What sort of disturbs me about this situation is that if you think it's a rape, it's based entirely what's in her head. If you buy into her thought process, whether or not it's justified, then the guy seems like a predator. If I had told you instead that she said yes because she thought he was hot, then the specter's gone. Nothing in the situation has changed other than what's knocking around inside her head. That seems to be a pretty horrible way to determine whether a crime has occurred.
In the episode, the situation was pretty much as described and the investigators are dead set on classifying it as rape even before finding out what was in the guy's head. The woman claimed she was in fear for her life if she didn't consent and because of that there was no point at which she said no. In the end, it almost doesn't matter whether the guy had a nefarious intent or not since it's all about her perception. Of course, because it's a tv show, the guy had to be shown to have known that he was coercing her, but what if he wasn't? What if he truly believed that they were having a great consensual relationship? Is he still a rapist simply because that's how she views it in her head?
Here's a curveball of sorts. If you do think that this is horribly inappropriate sexual contact, or even rape for a person with power over another to ask/initiate a sexual relationship...do you then also believe that Bill Clinton, in effect, raped Monica Lewinski? Why not? If she had perceived it as a power issue...would it then have been rape even if his actions were exactly the same in both situations?
I'm going to describe a series of events and I'd like to know whether you think what I'm describing qualifies as rape or not.
Two people work at an office and over time get to know each other pretty well. The male employee is the female employee's boss. One day, after the office christmas party or some other get together, they end up splitting a cab to go home. The man invites her into his apartment for a nightcap and she agrees, thinking that they'll just have some coffee and talk. Once inside the apartment, he propositions her. She thinks about how if she says no, he could go apeshit and fire her or otherwise try to ruin her career so she says yes and they knock boots.
Was she raped?
Yes
2(22.2%)
No
7(77.8%)
What sort of disturbs me about this situation is that if you think it's a rape, it's based entirely what's in her head. If you buy into her thought process, whether or not it's justified, then the guy seems like a predator. If I had told you instead that she said yes because she thought he was hot, then the specter's gone. Nothing in the situation has changed other than what's knocking around inside her head. That seems to be a pretty horrible way to determine whether a crime has occurred.
In the episode, the situation was pretty much as described and the investigators are dead set on classifying it as rape even before finding out what was in the guy's head. The woman claimed she was in fear for her life if she didn't consent and because of that there was no point at which she said no. In the end, it almost doesn't matter whether the guy had a nefarious intent or not since it's all about her perception. Of course, because it's a tv show, the guy had to be shown to have known that he was coercing her, but what if he wasn't? What if he truly believed that they were having a great consensual relationship? Is he still a rapist simply because that's how she views it in her head?
Here's a curveball of sorts. If you do think that this is horribly inappropriate sexual contact, or even rape for a person with power over another to ask/initiate a sexual relationship...do you then also believe that Bill Clinton, in effect, raped Monica Lewinski? Why not? If she had perceived it as a power issue...would it then have been rape even if his actions were exactly the same in both situations?
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the bill clinton/monica lewinsky case is a different kettle of fish, as she made the first move to let mr president know that she was interested.
And that scares the bejesus out of me.
In any case, the example given is a poor one, since an outside observer never really knows what is inside
the head of the other person. This applies to all of social life. In the present example, the narrator tells us what the hypothetical woman is thinking. In the real world, one does not know.
If readers are interested in these sorts of issues,
check out my blog- http://dankprofessor.wordpress.com
From my point of view, I was just a bit disturbed that as far as the show was concerned, everything depended on state of mind as to whether or not a crime occurred. It balanced everything on a razor's edge since we can never really know for sure what a person is or isn't thinking. I can't help but feel that whenever we move away from the bright lines of action/no action, it makes it easier for the law to be corrupted and used as an ideological tool.
At least if the feminists got their way and all those relationships were banned, it would at least be a clear line.
How about this then. Girl goes out and drinks some. Meets up with a guy later and they engage in intercourse. She claims she was legally intoxicated at the time and thus even though she consented, couldn't legally consent due to the intoxication. Is that rape? Does it matter whether her partner knew whether or not she was drunk? Does it matter whether or not he was drunk?
Do you think rape can/should be determined totally on the state of mind of one individual? That's the basic idea. With most crimes, it's the action that determines whether or not a crime has occurred. State of mind, when it is taken into consideration like in the case of determining intent, is usually based on the alleged perpetrator, not the alleged victim.
Here's an example. I ask you to loan me $5. You think that the very fact that I have asked you for the money means I'm demanding it and when you hand over the $5, you feel you've just been robbed. Am I now guilty of having mugged you?
Edited at 2009-02-09 02:15 pm (UTC)
So it's rape simply because she thinks it's rape? I'm sorry but that's not how the law is structured right now. According to your point of view, it would also be rape if a woman simply believed that any man who asked to have sex with her were a homicidal maniac and would kill her if she said no. Don't you think the reasonableness of the belief has any weight upon the situation?
I also don't really get the whole psychologist issue. So it wouldn't be mugging if it were $5 and you didn't have to visit a shrink afterwards, but if it were $1000 with a shrink visit, it would be?
made them afraid to say no. In your example, the woman was afraid to say no. In today's society, that is considered rape.